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MICE-DISCUSS  March 2022

MICE-DISCUSS March 2022

Subject:

Re: MICE Remote Switch Policy

From:

Aaron Wendel <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

MICE Discuss <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 25 Mar 2022 13:48:13 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (160 lines)

I've run some numbers on IX.br and I haven't been able to make them work 
yet...  yet...  :)

DE-CIX Frankfurt is accessible from the DE-CIX NY switch in KC.

Aaron


On 3/25/2022 1:22 PM, Jeremy Lumby wrote:
>
> Precisely why I am a fan of something in the middle.  The minimum 
> requirements will weed out the silly proposals and save time/effort.  
> The public discussion will bring up issues that should be considered, 
> and then the board can take the discussion, and use it to make a 
> decision.  With this being said I would say if the minimums were met, 
> and there was no discussion, it should just be rubber stamped by the 
> board. There are plenty of people who know a lot about BGP/networking 
> on this list so there are plenty of opportunities to bring potential 
> issues to light.
>
> I have thought a lot about running an extension switch in Minneapolis 
> for an IX outside of North America.  When you run the cost/benefit it 
> just does not make any sense.  I think those things would come to 
> light in the public discussion phase.  My personal opinion is anything 
> outside of North America just does not make sense for the “Midwest”.  
> The only reason that Cogent’s product does not fall on its face is 
> because it does not need to stand on its own.  If Cogent was not 
> already in those locations with their other services, it would never 
> have made it out of the gate.  Marketing is probably the only thing 
> keeping it alive.
>
> Jeremy
>
> *From:*MICE Discuss [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf 
> Of *Reid Fishler
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2022 11:53 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy
>
> The answer is somewhere in the middle. We do whats best for the 
> exchange, and for the internet in general. There are MANY things where 
> this is what was done by the community. Honest question...if someone 
> wants to put an extension in Rio, Brazil, do we let them? How about in 
> South Africa? Is there a line? An exchange has a purpose, and thats to 
> get everyone local to each other, on one fabric...otherwise we are 
> just making Cogents IX thing they sell, or any one of the number of 
> global fabrics. At SOME point we need to say enough is enough. I am 
> NOT saying we are there yet, but to allow EVERYTHING is a bit too much 
> in the other direction.
>
> Reid
>
> Reid
>
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 12:44 AM Jeremy Lumby <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>     I completely agree that the number of people who know very little
>     about BGP is growing quickly, the real question is how do you deal
>     with this problem.  Do you not permit things across the board
>     because of this, meaning that the opportunity is lost for the
>     people that understand what they are doing?  Or do you put as many
>     reasonable precautions in place so that when someone screws up, it
>     mostly just impacts them, and all of the other members maintain
>     granular control?
>
>     *From:*MICE Discuss [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On
>     Behalf Of *Reid Fishler
>     *Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2022 9:12 PM
>     *To:* [log in to unmask]
>     *Subject:* Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy
>
>     The issue is there are going to be more and more networks that are
>     buying these peering services that don't always know what they
>     are... Either by services, or because 'someone told me to'... Its
>     not always those in the know that buy these things... Sometimes
>     it's networks that DON'T know.
>
>     Reid
>
>     On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 10:04 PM Jeremy Lumby <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>         I understand the point a little better now.  I would say it
>         depends on the specific type of CDN.  The more traditional
>         ones like Cloudflare and Akamai it would not be a huge
>         disincentive because they market themselves based on how
>         close/low latency they are to the end user.  Other CDNs that
>         are delivering more of their own content like Netflix/Google
>         would be more grateful for the free transport, and care less
>         about the added latency (assuming no loss).
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: MICE Discuss [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>         Behalf Of Richard Laager
>         Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 8:46 PM
>         To: [log in to unmask]
>         Subject: Re: [MICE-DISCUSS] MICE Remote Switch Policy
>
>         On 3/24/22 18:00, Jeremy Lumby wrote:
>         > As for a disincentive for CDN's to connect, I have only seen
>         the opposite.  Most CDN's will only accept a connection to the
>         core.  The only time I have seen them connect to a remote was
>         for a secondary connection to gain switch diversity.
>
>         I wasn't talking about CDNs connecting to remotes. The
>         concern, or at
>         least how I understood it, was: Imagine we put a MICE
>         extension in city
>         X. In the immediate term, that's great, as now networks in
>         city X can
>         get content from Minneapolis CDNs. But in the longer-term, it
>         may create
>         a disincentive for CDNs to go to city X.
>
>         Counter-point: Whether CDNs come to city X is not our problem.
>
>         -- 
>         Richard
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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>
>     To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link:
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>     <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Reid Fishler
> Senior Director
> Hurricane Electric
> +1-510-580-4178
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the MICE-DISCUSS list, click the following link:
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> <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1>
>
>
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> <http://lists.iphouse.net/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=MICE-DISCUSS&A=1>
>

-- 
================================================================
Aaron Wendel
Chief Technical Officer
Wholesale Internet, Inc. (AS 32097)
(816)550-9030
http://www.wholesaleinternet.com
================================================================

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