I see the disconnect now. I said,"because it provides an easy answer to
Richards question about which IRR to use, you don't have to use any of them
you can do it all in ARIN ONLINE." Richard's questions was "which IRR
should we(MICE) recommend networks use, if they aren't already using one,
not which IRR MICE should use." And the answer to that question is use
ARIN ONLINE and not an IRR. And yes they would be to a network that
received it's block from ARIN, which is the case for the vast majority of
MICE connected networks. I wasn't suggesting the MICE could only use ARIN
WHOIS info. MICE would have to generate filters based on ARIN WHOIS and all
the IRRs.
Hope that clarifies things.
Thanks.
On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 11:11 AM, DeLong, Owen <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> If MICE starts building filters based on ARIN whois, that won’t include
> data from other IRRs or IRR data at all.
>
> If MICE is building filters from IRR databases, it won’t include the ARIN
> whois information.
>
> We’d have to merge data from both sources in order to have a workable
> solution that doesn’t ignore important data.
>
> Thus, David’s suggestion that we could “just use ARIN ONLINE” without
> using any IRR doesn’t match my understanding of
> Job’s message.
>
> Owen
>
> On Dec 20, 2017, at 08:52 , David Farmer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> No, it is simply another option to provide Prefix/ASN binding information
> for address blocks registered with ARIN, you can still do it with an IRR if
> you wish.
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 10:38 AM, DeLong, Owen <00000005a669d12e-dmarc-
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> This assumes that all prefixes advertised at MICE are issued by ARIN.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> On Dec 19, 2017, at 14:54 , David Farmer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> FYI,
>>
>> A very interesting development in light of our discussions about doing
>> route filtering at MICE.
>>
>> With this development I enthusiastically support moving forward with
>> route filtering because it provides an easy answer to Richards question
>> about which IRR to use, you don't have to use any of them you can do it all
>> in ARIN ONLINE.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Job Snijders <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 4:37 PM
>> Subject: [routing-wg] a new source for authoritative routing data: ARIN
>> WHOIS
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> Dear RIPE WG,
>>
>> I'm sharing a copy of what I sent to NANOG. This is specifically of
>> interest to networks and route server operators that have customers who
>> also operate in the ARIN region.
>>
>> In the RIPE region we've always had the convenience that the "WHOIS"
>> ('inetnum') and "IRR" ('route/route6') components of the database were
>> interleaved. Only the IP block's owner can create or authorise others
>> regarding creation of route-objects. This coupling of WHOIS and IRR
>> doesn't exist at rr.arin.net
>>
>> vs whois.arin.net
>>
>> - so I consider the
>> following a significant improvement.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Job
>>
>> ----- Forwarded message from Job Snijders <[log in to unmask]> -----
>>
>> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 22:18:20 +0000
>> From: Job Snijders <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: a new source for authoritative routing data: ARIN WHOIS
>>
>> Dear NANOG,
>>
>> I'd like to share an update on some routing security activities that
>> ARIN, NTT Communications, YYCIX (Calgary Internet Exchange), the NLNOG
>> Foundation, and the arouteserver project have been collaborating on.
>> Quite some puzzles pieces were brought together! :)
>>
>> Traditionally, there are two commonly-used methods to signal to your
>> peers or upstream providers what Origin ASN(s) are allowed to originate
>> a given IP prefix. As an operator, you can either create a "route
>> object" in the IRR, or you can compose a Letter Of Agency (LOA) and send
>> that to your upstream providerfor manual verification.
>>
>> When it comes to manual verification of routing data (such a LOA), one
>> of the big questions is "what data source is actually authoritative for
>> the verification?". In the ARIN registry the so-called "OriginAS"
>> attribute can be used for this purpose. The OriginAS attribute can only
>> be set or modified by authorized accounts (such as the holder of the IP
>> space). This makes the OriginAS attribute a very reliable source of
>> truth! ARIN shared some notes on LOAs & OriginAS in the following article:
>> https://teamarin.net/2016/07/07/origin-as-an-easier-way-to-v
>> alidate-letters-of-authority/
>>
>>
>> That teamarin posting got me thinking: clearly there is a lot of
>> valuable routing information in the ARIN WHOIS registry. What if we make
>> the process such that you don't have to email in a LOA, and, have the
>> recipient verify it against against the web interface output (which you
>> updated before sending in the LOA). What if the prefix-filter generation
>> software could just programmatically fetch all (CIDR, OriginAS) tuples
>> from the ARIN WHOIS registry and load that into the list of prefixes a
>> customer is allowed to announce. Just like we do with IRR objects!
>>
>> A few weeks ago I approached John Curran from ARIN asking whether we
>> could work out a mechanism to somehow obtain a computer parsable
>> rendering of the CIDR/OriginAS data in the ARIN WHOIS registry. The path
>> forward turned out to be an agreement between the NLNOG Foundation and
>> ARIN, which authorises NLNOG to publish a subset of the bulk whois data
>> in the convenient format (JSON) for operational purposes. The ARIN WHOIS
>> (CIDR, OriginAS) tuples can be downloaded in JSON format here:
>> http://irrexplorer.nlnog.net/static/dumps/arin-whois-originas.json.bz2
>>
>>
>> Because of the JSON dump, the ARIN WHOIS data can now be easily consumed
>> by software programs. For example, the JSON file is now loaded into IRR
>> Explorer as can be seen here: http://irrexplorer.nlnog.net/search/AS22512
>>
>> You can see the 'arin-whois' column which lists what ASN(s) are
>> authorized to announce the blocks (this, in addition to what is signaled
>> in IRR or RPKI).
>>
>> The novel thing here is that JSON file not only allows you to look up an
>> OriginAS using the IP prefix as a lookup key, but the reverse can now
>> also be done: lookup what IP prefixes an ASN is allowed to originate
>> (based on ARIN WHOIS data).
>>
>> Deployment Experience YYCIX:
>>
>> At this point you may be wondering - what does any of the above have to
>> do with an Internet Exchange in Alberta, Canada (https://www.yycix.ca/
>>
>> )
>> or a python-based IXP Route Server management software from Italian
>> origins (http://arouteserver.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
>> )
>> ? :-)
>>
>> As an experiment to explore real world use of the ARIN WHOIS data and
>> prove its value, I worked with Pier Carlo Chiodi (arouteserver) and Theo
>> de Raadt (YYCIX) to consume the ARIN WHOIS data as an additional source
>> in the prefix filter generation process governing the YYCIX route
>> servers. The YYCIX route servers see roughly 80,000 prefixes.
>>
>> The results are fantastic: ~ 1,700 IPv4 prefixes that were previously
>> rejected by the YYCIX route servers (because no IRR route object
>> exists), are now accepted because those announcements can be verified
>> against data from ARIN's WHOIS registry. This resolved roughly 23% of
>> invalid path announcements sent to the YYCIX route servers.
>>
>> Deployment Experience NTT:
>>
>> Based on the above positive results, starting today, NTT is also
>> accepting ARIN WHOIS OriginAS information in conjunction with IRR route
>> objects. Our implementation fetches the ARIN WHOIS data, transforms it
>> into RPSL format, and imports it into our IRRd instance at rr.ntt.net
>>
>> as
>> IRR objects. This way we don't need to update our toolchain to make use
>> of this new data source. An example is here:
>>
>> job@vurt:~$ whois -h rr.ntt.net
>>
>> -- "-sARIN-WHOIS 204.209.252.0/23
>>
>> "
>> route: 204.209.252.0/23
>>
>> descr: NET-204-209-252-0-1
>> origin: AS22512
>> remarks: This route object represents authoritative data retrieved
>> from ARIN's WHOIS service.
>> remarks: The original data can be found here:
>> https://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-204-209-252-0-1
>>
>> remarks: This route object is the result of an automated
>> WHOIS-to-IRR conversion process.
>> mnt-by: MAINT-JOB
>> changed: [log in to unmask] 20090220
>> source: ARIN-WHOIS
>>
>> NTT also observed a substantial number (similar to YYCIX) of BGP
>> announcements from its customers that were previously rejected because
>> of the lack of an IRR object, but now are validated via ARIN WHOIS.
>>
>> Conclusion:
>>
>> It is great to be able to offer network operators a choice: either
>> register your BGP announcements as route objects in RPSL format in IRR,
>> or use the ARIN WHOIS web interface, (or both) - either way, as IP
>> transit carrier, we can now pick up your attestations in an automated
>> fashion. This which improves accuracy and reduces red tape! :)
>>
>> Hopefully more carriers and IXPs will embrace the ARIN WHOIS data source
>> in their automation toolchain. The code & procedures to make use of this
>> source are open. I'm happy to help you both on-list and off-list.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Job
>>
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer Email:[log in to unmask]
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE
>>
>> Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
>> ===============================================
>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer Email:[log in to unmask]
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE
>
> Phone: 612-626-0815 <(612)%20626-0815>
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 <(612)%20812-9952>
> ===============================================
>
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--
===============================================
David Farmer Email:[log in to unmask]
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================
