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A bit late to the discussion, but here are my thoughts: On Thu., 2022-03-24 3:58 p.m., Richard Laager wrote: > At Wiktel, I peer with MN VoIP's far away extensions in Minneapolis. > For example, I peer at SeattleIX (SIX) in Minneapolis. This has caused > me some issues. For example, latency-sensitive gaming traffic was > tromboning > Wiktel-Minneapolis-Seattle-Chicago-Seattle-Minneapolis-Wiktel rather > than Wiktel-Chicago-Wiktel. This is the biggest issue I am concerned about. Layer-2 can't tell us how far away the peer is. BGP doesn't have knobs for varying latency across peers on the same Layer-2. The SIX example of really-remote peers, with resultant latency higher than Transit, is a performance degradation for SIX and their members, and reduces the quality of SIX, I'd argue. I would suggest that MICE have a limit, say 5 ms RTT, on latency to remote switches. Then we can say that MICE is in a geographic region, not potentially a pan-North-America layer-2. Part of MICE's identity should be its location, and the resultant low-latency across MICE itself. If MICE is in Kansas City, and KCIX is in Minneapolis, what's the difference between them? Why do they both exist if they serve the same datacentres in the same way: a Layer-2 ethernet fabric? I become confused at what problem is being solved when IXes start overlapping and becoming non-geographic, rather than limited to a metro area, or certain radius around a hub. I think there's a difference between an individual member (me) arriving over a long layer-2 link (from Winnipeg) to the IX, and the IX doing long layer-2 links themselves. The difference is that I have knowledge of and control over my long-haul links, but if the IX does it, unexpectedly long-haul paths happen without my decision to use them. Finally, I'm a big fan of what MICE has accomplished so far, I hope this message doesn't read as being overly critical. Cheers, Jonathan AS18451 - LES.NET Jonathan Stewart Network Engineer LES.NET - AS18451 Desk: 1-204-666-6191 Mobile: 1-204-990-2120 130 Portage Avenue E Winnipeg, MB R3C 0A1 CANADA